I can't believe my country is having this debate!

Lieberman says some waterboarding OK
By PETER URBAN
Connecticut Post Online
14 Feb 2008
WASHINGTON — Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman reluctantly acknowledged Thursday that he does not believe waterboarding is torture, but believes the interrogation technique should be available only under the most extreme circumstances.
...
"You want to be able to use emergency tech to try to get the information out of that person," Lieberman said. Of course, Lieberman believes such authority has limits. He does not believe the president could authorize having hot coals pressed on someone's flesh to obtain that information.
The difference, he said, is that waterboarding is mostly psychological and there is no permanent physical damage. "It is not like putting burning coals on people's bodies. The person is in no real danger. The impact is psychological," Lieberman said.

Well, it's not hot coals! This guy was almost elected VP as a Democrat???

Just for grins, let's hear from someone who thought seriously about war:

“For centuries all wounded and such unwounded prisoners as were valueless as slaves had their throats cut. No one was shocked; it was the custom. Finally, it occurred to some altruistic and thoughtful soldier that while the practice was excellent so long as he was the victor, it had it's drawbacks in the not unlikely event of his being the vanquished. The notion of humane treatment for the foe was born. Years of use sanctified the idea; it became the custom. Yet, the horrid thought pops up that help for the helpless sprang from love of ourselves, not of others; from fear of retaliation.”
[THE EFFECT OF WEAPONS ON WAR, Major George S. Patton, Jr., Cavalry Journal, November 1930]

This, ultimately, is the reason not to torture: by making torture (euphemistically, “enhanced interrogation”) national policy, we expose our soldiers, our diplomats, and ourselves to the same treatment without recourse to any court, not even the court of public opinion. We put ourselves beyond the pale of law, of custom, of civilization. We invite retaliation.

And... aren't conservatives the ones who presumably abhor moral relativism? What happened to that principle? When "the ends justify the means" we have lost our bearings!

Here's another fun quotation:

She said "If I knew what to say I would say it. Oh Señor, I don't know what I have to say-- Oh! Oh! they are killing me--if they would tell me what--Oh, Señores! Oh, my heart!" Then she asked why they wished her to tell what she could not tell and cried repeatedly "O, miserable me" Then she said "Lord bear witness that they are killing me without my being able to confess." She was told that if she wished to tell the truth before the water was poured she should do so and discharge her conscience. She said that she could not speak and that she was a sinner. Then the linen toca was placed [in her throat] and she said "Take it away, I am strangling and am sick in the stomach." A jar of water was then poured down, after which she was told to tell the truth. She clamored for confession, saying that she was dying. She was told that the torture would be continued till she told the truth and was admonished to tell it, but though she was questioned repeatedly she remained silent. Then the inquisitor, seeing her exhausted by the torture, ordered it to be suspended.
['...a very moderate case of water-torture, carried only to a single jarra, administered in 1568 by the tribunal of Toledo to Elvira del Campo, accused of not eating pork and of putting on "clean linen on Saturdays. She admitted the acts but denied heretical intent and was tortured on intention." '
A History of the Inquisition of Spain, Volume 3, Henry Charles Lea, 1906/7]

Psychological trauma is no less damaging than physical trauma. Would that Lieberman et al. could understand that!

Stop the madness!